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Saturday, January 16, 2010

A blogger's view

I got the link to this blog from RockyBru. I think everyone who's ever offered his or her 2 sen worth on the Allah issue should read this too. The blogpost is titled "The Problem of Meaning, Abdullah Paderi and the Pangkor Treaty." And it is taken from the blog Pure Shiite........Pererration of a Space Monkey from Uranus. Read. Enjoy. Think. Debate.

The Problem of Meaning, Abdullah Paderi and the Pangkor Treaty


Welcome back folks…….

Today what shall we talk about?


Should we go into the discourse of whether Allah the Arabic “Loan-word” in “Malay” should go Mainstream and its potential impact on the cognitive behavoir of the Malays

Or should we try to understand how the fuck we got here in the first place…..

mmm……which one folks?

Let us do both……

Where shall we begin…..

Simple things first….

Allah is an Arabic Loan Word in Malay or is it an exclusive Arabic word not in Malay?

Simple rite……

Hah…which one?

Ok lets assume that its a loan word from Arabic and is used widely in the Malay Peninsula say from Friday, 22nd February, 1303

Why that date......(read more)

24 comments:

ktteokt said...

When the ORIGINAL owner of the word is generous enough to share it with others, why is a BORROWER of this word so POSSESSIVE?

life start after 22/2/1303 said...

what happened to before Friday, 22nd February, 1303?

satD said...

Dear Patrick

Thank you for the link.

I love your deep voice man...

Regards
satD

michael said...

So blardy long. Niamah... where I got the patience to read a long article to prove an infantile point that since our Muslim Allah had been used in Malay language longer than your Christian Allah, we have the right to claim exclusivity to that word.

If this kind of argument is to be accepted, then the Jews can claim that the Islam God was stolen from them since the Jewish God appeared in the Hebrew Bible eons before the Holy Koran. The Christians may also make a similar claim because everyone knows the books of the Holy Bible predates the Holy Koran by centuries and the Holy Koran in Surah 29:46 recognises that the God of the Jews, Christians and Islam is one.

So Uncle Teoh, can you see the absurdity of the arguments put forward?

Notwithstanding that in 1303, most inhabitants in this region, including the ancestors of the Malays, were Hindus.

Anonymous said...

Hi Pat,

Just posted a reply to that Uranian Monkey's site.

Dont expect it to see the day anyway. So here it's.

What a cleverly way of twisting & mis-interpreting historical writings!

Batu Bersurat Trengganu pre-dated the Christian Document written in Malay Jawi! So Allah is an exclusive word for Malay???

What about the Arab Christian? What about the Sikh? What about the Indonesians of other faiths?

Oh, sorry-lah - u r talking about the Islam as understand by the Malay M’sians in Malaya/M’sia. But when did Islam as practice by the Malay M’sians different from the other Islam of ONE ummah? Confusions a plenty leh!!!!!

Ya loh - yr takes about Munshi Abdullah. Bagus!!

Can I gather that after this, all traces of Munshi Abdullah will do a Hang's brotherly act in the Malay history?

No, not the current actor that syiok so many Mat Minah, rather the one mentioned in the old Malacca sultanate that I used to read.

Remember, ever since there is doubt about the Hang's gangs origin, suddenly all traces of their historical acts disappeared from the mention of Malaya history!

Back to Abdullah's interpretation of Allah, let’s do an analysis using the theory of Triangle of Meaning.

Ok, u r so right - writing from the angle of syntactic (I sincerely hope that I read u correctly).

But.. but, what about from the angles of semantics & pragmatics?

Remember what u wrote – “Language is one among many sign-systems. The science of such system is called ‘semiotic’. Within semiotics, Morris (Levinson, C. Stephen, 1983: 1) distinguished three distinct branches of inquiry: syntactics, being the study of ‘the formal relation of signs to one another’, semantics, the study of ‘the relations of signs to the objects to which the signs are applicable’, and pragmatics, the study of ‘the relation of signs to interpreters’”

So let me put to u that M Abdullah being a learn man of letters, correctly ‘translate’ the TRUE description of the super being by using Allah, from his understanding of that meaning as bounded by the theory of Triangle of Meaning. No?

Wasnt Islam & Christianity shared the same Abrahamic origin? Thus, M Abdullah's interpretation of the Christian God as Allah was syntactically, semantically & pragmatically CORRECT. No??

Anyway, these arguments about the word - Allah, r a pathetic debate over whose version of history is correct. Behind all the pros & cons of these circular arguments over the word Allah, hides the semantics of one same faith!

This is especially so when only the WORD to described that super being is being argued in loops. What about the teachings of that super being?

This is REALLY sad! Sad to the nth power!

Should I say some people like superficial enactment of religious pious rather than the true righteousness that shined within that religion?

BTW, u can only disprove this, IFF u r the contemporary of M Abdullah & be able to read his mind. No??? So don’t chase yr own tail, ok?

BTWx2, would u please pass yr description of yr understanding about Mamat to that shit-stirrer of the past 22 yr of wasted development for M’sia?

Why wasted? Superficial physical developments but zilch content for mental & religious advancement for the flops of sheep that he so mis-guided!

anomie

Anonymous said...

My bumiputra engineer fresh from local uni can even calculate the power of a genset! How can he read from top to bottom and do a dissertation on Allah?

Most of them has a attention span of a small grasshopper! Can even read " The Message to Garcia" and understand its implications to their working life!

Who to blame? Makateer? Najis?

Blame ourselves for not sacrificing our leisure to pursue knowledge.

Most of them prefers MKT... Makan, Konkek and Tidor! It is in the genes man!

MyMojoJojo said...

Once you say this issue thread into the sensitivity of malay, the outcome of any discussion will be determined by umno.

case close.

I rather watch my cartoon on Cartoon Network.

You may choose to watch theose bn flers trying to outso the Raja Lawak contestants.

Anonymous said...

Malaysia hoodwink words 1Malaysia,Malaysia boleh, semua OK, Every thing under control.
Am so tired with all this.

donplaypuks® said...

Bro Patrick

Here's my reply to Rocky and SatD posted at "Pure Shiite's" blog:

"One minute, Munshi Abdullah is the greatest Malay scholar of antiquity, the next he is a British and Christian Missionary apologist?

"Mamat ni sebenornya mixed Arab & Tamil.....As having the vigour and pride of the Arab, the perseverance and subtlety of the Hindoo - in language and national sympathy only he was Malay. Sounds familiar?" so spews "Pure Shiite" in a scurrilous piece of racist, shameful revisionism.

Well, doesn't a certain famous Dr.M also boast of South Indian, and many Bumiputra too of Arab, origins? Are they the lesser for it?

And he couldn't resist taking a swipe at Farish Noor as "The Mat Saleh Bontot hitam Melayu Apologist" whose PhD and scholaticism would put people like Pure Shiite to embarrassing shame.

And you call this "speed reading" learnt piece of vindictive, vitriolic diarrhetic bigotry impressive, almost divine research, Rocky?

Up Uranus too, Pure Shiite!!"

People like SatD conveniently forget the extensive influence of Hinduism from 500 BC to 1400 AD in SEA stretching from Vietnam, Burma, Thailand to Malaysia to Indon and that Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism and Christianity pre-date Islam anywhere from 600 to 5,000 years!

We are all of 1 race, the Human Race

art harun said...

Sorry. One question. It looks from that article that the Malays here are under the mistaken understanding that Allah only refers to the Muslim God. If so, isn't it the right time NOW to address that misunderstanding? Must the Christians or other faiths who refer to God as Allah be penalised because the Malays here have misunderstood the word Allah?
As far as I know, and I am a Muslim, God has 99 names. That's what the Prophet says. Non of the 99 however is Allah.
How?

Anonymous said...

Domestic Trade, Cooperatives and Consumerism Minister Datuk Seri Ismail Sabri Yaakob said:

"Under the Copyright Act, it is wrong to sell a pirated DVD or VCD, but it is not wrong to purchase it. Both acts should be deemed wrong,"

He wanted to prosecute both parties.

Very soon they will raid every home for pirated DVDs.

Anonymous said...

1303?

Was it from the Islamic Calender (i.e. Islamic Year) or the Julian Calender?

Interesting.

Anonymous said...

The Facebook group ‘Menentang penggunaan nama Allah oleh golongan bukan Muslim’ (reviewed here) are planting the seeds of extremism and discord in young minds. The fire that they are intent on fanning can easily get out of control if not already.

BukuMuka said...

Information Communication and Culture Minister Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim: "Malaysians, especially Muslims, must avoid being totally immersed in the internet culture, especially Facebook and Twitter".

He wanted you to read Utusan?

How can be an Information Minister if he cannot keep up with ICT?

peng chin said...

TIME magazine reported a disturbing revelations that throw a spotlight on Malaysia as the region's key meeting place for al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorists and an exporter of jihad.

No wonder BERNAMA TV on Astro (Awani 502) called the terrorists PEJUANG AL-QAEDA.

Anonymous said...

Rocky is a pembodek!!!(ball carrier)
Bodek umno and bn idiots kau kau!!!


gibuk

kat said...

Patrick, Have you read the list of words not to be uttered by non-muslims? I just read about it in The Msian Insider. I'm afraid we won't be able to talk about the tallest building in the world in Dubai any more. Or we can just refer to it as TTBITW I guess... (¬_¬)

Anonymous said...

Hah Rocky Bru, not long after joining Malay Mail it became a free paper, not the free like in freedom but free like read me lah it's free mah, no need to pay, please.
Congrats rocky, you are really a change man. I do not read anything coming out from you.

AlixmeOne said...

wow...this pure shitte is really something la......
thanks for the link Pat

Trashed said...

The article from the Uranian Monkey seems to have omitted the use of that word by Christian Malaysians living in Sabah and Sarawak. I read the rather long posting but most of it seemed to focus on Peninsula but not across the South China Sea.

As such, his treatise looks incomplete.

Thus, I wonder if that triage of syntactics, semantics and pragmaticism is equally applicable to users in Sabah & Sarawak.

satD said...

trashed

i've responded to your query read my latest piece.

Thank you

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing all these infos, keep up your good work. I've been following you since the days of "Cool and Swingin' Show - Cocacola"

Anonymous said...

http://satdthinks.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumb-doctor-doom-pakiam-ane-even-arabs.html

http://sejarahnagarakedah.blogspot.com/

terima kasih
dan jangan percaya penuh dungu kepada penjajah (barat)

sebab tu sekarang US dan EU berhutang dgn China

Anonymous said...

art harun said...
....... and I am a Muslim, God has 99 names. That's what the Prophet says. Non of the 99 however is Allah.
How?

Art that was so sad,...sad.
especially with all the praises for your reply to Ridhuan Tee.
So sad

Nuffnang