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Monday, January 04, 2010

Must read

I came across this article on Marina Mahathir's blog Rantings yesterday. I think it is a must read.

Prophet Muhammad’s Promise to Christians

The document is not a modern human rights treaty but even thought it was penned in 628 A.D. it clearly protects the right to property, freedom of religion, freedom of work, and security of the person, says Muqtedar Khan.

Muslims and Christians together constitute over fifty percent of the world and if they lived in peace, we will be half way to world peace. One small step that we can take towards fostering Muslim-Christian harmony is to tell and retell positive stories and abstain from mutual demonization.

In this article I propose to remind both Muslims and Christians about a promise that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) made to Christians. The knowledge of this promise can have enormous impact on Muslim conduct towards Christians. Muslims generally respect the precedent of their Prophet and try to practice it in their lives.


In 628 AD, a delegation from St. Catherine’s Monastery came to Prophet Muhammed and requested his protection. He responded by granting them a charter of rights, which I reproduce below in its entirety. St. Catherine’s Monastery is located at the foot of Mt. Sinai and is the world’s oldest monastery. It possesses a huge collection of Christian manuscripts, second only to the Vatican, and is a world heritage site. It also boasts the oldest collection of Christian icons. It is a treasure house of Christian history that has remained safe for 1400 years under Muslim protection.


The Promise to St. Catherine:

"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by God! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

The first and the final sentence of the charter are critical. They make the promise eternal and universal. Muhammed asserts that Muslims are with Christians near and far straight away rejecting any future attempts to limit the promise to St. Catherine alone. By ordering Muslims to obey it until the Day of Judgment the charter again undermines any future attempts to revoke the privileges. These rights are inalienable. Muhammed declared Christians, all of them, as his allies and he equated ill treatment of Christians with violating God’s covenant.

A remarkable aspect of the charter is that it imposes no conditions on Christians for enjoying its privileges. It is enough that they are Christians. They are not required to alter their beliefs, they do not have to make any payments and they do not have any obligations. This is a charter of rights without any duties!

The document is not a modern human rights treaty but even thought it was penned in 628 A.D. it clearly protects the right to property, freedom of religion, freedom of work, and security of the person.

I know most readers, must be thinking so what? Well the answer is simple. Those who seek to foster discord among Muslims and Christians focus on issues that divide and emphasize areas of conflict. But when resources such as Muhammad’s promise to Christians are invoked and highlighted it builds bridges. It inspires Muslims to rise above communal intolerance and engenders good will in Christians who might be nursing fear of Islam or Muslims.

When I look at Islamic sources, I find in them unprecedented examples of religious tolerance and inclusiveness. They make me want to become a better person. I think the capacity to seek good and do good inheres in all of us. When we subdue this predisposition towards the good, we deny our fundamental humanity. In this holiday season, I hope all of us can find time to look for something positive and worthy of appreciation in the values, cultures and histories of other peoples.

Dr. Muqtedar Khan is Director of Islamic Studies at the University of Delaware and a fellow of the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, when that delegation from St Catherine's monastery came to meet with Prophet Mohamad (pbuh), I suppose it's fair to assume that they spoke Arabic to one another. And when they were conversing, surely the word 'God' must have come up. As in "May God Be With You" and such like. What word did the Prophet (pbuh) use for 'God' I wonder? And what did the St Catherinians use in return? For monotheists like them, was there a 'your God' and 'my God' type of situation, or did they understand that they were both talking about the same One?



While some idiots are mourning over the 'loss' of the word 'Allah' and therefore basically telling the world that they are people easily confused by nomenclature, and others are predicting riots over what is basically a 'copyright' issue, let me define what I think a confident Muslim should be:


1. A confident Muslim is unfazed by the issue of God's name. God speaks to all of humankind in the Quran and never said that only Muslims could call him by the name Allah.


2. A confident Muslim has 99 names to choose from to describe that One God. My favourites are Ar-Rahman (The All-Compassionate) and Ar-Rahim (The All-Merciful).


3. A confident Muslim never gets confused over which is his/her religion and which is other people's. For instance, a confident Muslim knows exactly what the first chapter of the Quran is. And it's not the Lord's Prayer.


4. A confident Muslim will not walk into a church, hear a liturgy in Malay or Arabic where they use the word 'Allah' and then think that he or she is in a mosque. A confident Muslim knows the difference.


5. A confident Muslim is generous, inclusive and doesn't think that his or her brethren is made exclusive through the use of a single language. The confident Muslim is well aware that in the Middle East, all services of ANY religion are in Arabic because that's what they all speak.


6. A confident Muslim knows the basis of his/her faith are the five pillars of Islam and will not be shaken just because other people call God by the same name.


7. A Muslim believes in only One God. Therefore it makes sense that other people should call God by the same name because there is no other God.


ART THOU NOT aware that it is God whose limit­less glory all [creatures] that are in the heavens and on earth extol, even the birds as they spread out their wings? Each [of them] knows indeed how to pray unto Him and to glorify Him; and God has full knowledge of all that they do:(Surah Nour, Verse 41) (Asad)


So I would ask those people demonstrating against the Court decision, have you no pride? Are you saying you're easily confused?

And before anyone says I have no qualifications to say these things, read what Dr Asri Zainal Abidin (who does have qualifications no matter what JAIS says) has written about this very subject here.

And here's something interesting. In 2007, the Majlis Agama Negeri Perlis, which is a large majlis filled with people very learned in Islamic religious knowledge, discussed the question of the use of 'Allah' by non-Muslims. Their unanimous decision? They issued a fatwa to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with non-Muslims using the word at all.(This was told to me by Dr. Asri but I cannot find the fatwa anywhere online because all the religious departments' websites are so useless.)

Are we now going to excommunicate the whole of Perlis?

Niamah!!!

67 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well then, cut it short....less said the better. Forgive those who blundered...they know not what they are doing.

Just beware of the politicians who know a good opportunity when one comes along.

Uranus

Khir said...

Patrick Teoh - not original, steal Marina's blog.

Marina does not know Arabic, how can she represent her religion?

Anonymous said...

why they want to use Allah word..? why not Tuhan .. a missionary work i think ..a lot of implication on this issue.. and why this issue come to surface now ..why they dont use the word off Allah in Malay bible not in chinese bible and indian bible

Anonymous said...

That's good. Read it today as well. Glad you shared it here too.

Anonymous said...

Many Malaysian are very tolerant towards people who thinks that their God needs protection in the misuse of His name. If we need to protect God's name than we are stonger than God, or is He too weak to defend himself?

Anonymous said...

you think they will listen? nah... fuckin politician....

ricky said...

A truly wonderful read.

Anonymous said...

uncle patrick,

tis is oled blog...afterwards ah muak will niamh you ok..anyway u must tell us la what actually happen when pdrm called u for telling true stories..just curious. NIAMAH tat fleer MUAK

Anonymous said...

Pat,

Good post..!
Why make such a big deal about the "Allah" word?
The word "Allah" is "God". The word "God" is "Allah", no matter which way one explain.

If a tourist ask me what's the BM translation of "God"....
I say "Allah"...!!

Nothing wrong what.....

There are more important issues to fight or make noise about.
Like missing jet engines, murders, corruptions to the highest degree, the poor, cleaneness of our tourism spots, etc............

But noo......! Just wasting "brain power" for silly issues...!

Aiyah...! Use the word "Tuhan" lah...!!!

najib manaukau said...

Why don't we have a law to have all Malaysians to become Muslims to rid of all this problem ?
But I am sure the Malay Muslims will then have something else to protest against the non Malay Muslims ?

michael said...

Marina should first persuade her father to read her blog.

Anonymous said...

Most of the Malay Muslims have been waylaid by sub-standard,unqualified,so-called ustaz.They are a failure in society.Earn their living hiding behind the robes & mosques.Preaching some 'sub-kow'(cantonese)doctine!
Three cheers to Marina for speaking out!

Anonymous said...

I like the direction where this issue is heading.. For once the Malaysian Christians & Muslims are made to look into thier own roots again and perhaps they end up with a happy (same???)ending.. God's Willing !! SirAlf

Anonymous said...

I'm very thankful to Allah SWT for giving me guidances to lead the life as muslim, Alhamdullillah. At the same time, though, I'm disappointed that some muslim brothers out there are confused and have been derailed from the legitimate duties bestowed upon.

This phenomena should not happened in the first place if they really understand what islam is. May Allah SWT bless them with taufik and hidayah. Amin

Anonymous said...

Those cow head carriers probably don't know how to read English. Better suggest Marina put up a blog in Malay as well.

konspirasi umno said...

The controversy regarding use of term 'Allah' by non-Muslims was started by Umno leaders using the Home Ministry. It is a recent invention to create the feeling among Muslims that they need Umno's protection. Statements by Umno leaders seem to be prompting Muslim voters to feel confused and threatened. The issue is even dividing PAS and this is in line with Umno's ploy.

The issue seems to be part of Umno's political strategy in readiness for the next general election. Umno is playing for high stakes - it is prepared to lose the votes of the non-Muslims and of other BN component parties and also to lose all their seats in constituencies where non-Muslims form the majority. All this in exchange for the Muslim vote.

That the other component parties of BN are strangely quiet attest to their agreement to Umno's plan. The strategy is to regain power, like in Perak, where Umno predominates on the government side in the state assembly while members of the other component parties are given minor posts. Umno is risking the well-being of country for its political plans.

big cat said...

muak & khir

lu boleh lupa sama bahasa malaysia, pakailah bahasa arab.

Iskandar Hussein said...

I could not disagree with the 7 points of what confident muslim should have.

The point on Prophet's promise to Christian, I will take it as something that I should seek for clarity.

There's too much political gimmicks that has been place lately whether from the ruling party or the opponent to confuse people and allowing their doctrine to go in.

Races and religion are sensitive issue in any part of the world.

In any religious teaching .. the common word that been planted over and over again ever since we're kid is "peace"..
If all of us hold to that word ... I do not think this would happen.

Anonymous said...

Is Jakim in contempt of court:

Don’t use term yet, Jakim tells Church
http://freemalaysiatoday.com/english/?p=5999

radhi tee said...

PLEASE DO NOT BE FOOLED BY UMNO.

This issue is an attempt by Umno to divert the people’s attention from other pressing issues.

The heated discussion on the issue in the newspapers and online forums have distracted Malaysians from focusing on issues such as the stolen RMAF jet engines and the RM12.5 billion Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ) scandal.

Umno used this issue to be seen as the champion of Islam, then initiated an appeal to reverse the high court’s decision, then proclaim itself as the defender of Islam.

Anonymous said...

In the light of these considerations, Dr Khan's example of St Catherine's letter is misleading and unfortunate. Dr Khan must surely be aware that scholarly opinion does not regard this document as genuine. It is almost certainly a forgery, created to bolster the security of the Christian monks of the Mount Sinai Monastry. This is why the document no longer exists in its original form: there never was an original letter. In reality the very existence of this document is evidence of the fear under which the monks have lived, as are the impregnable walls of the monastery building itself.
http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2010/01/accentuate-positive-dr-muqtedar-khans.html

Anonymous said...

FUCK YOU PATRICK TEOH

I WILL FUCK YOU ANY TIME ,ANY CHANCE I GET. YOU WATCH YOUR BACK

Anonymous said...

Malaysia has heightened screenings at entry and exit checkpoints for “high-risk natio-nals” based on lists provided by the United States and Australia.

Source:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/1/5/nation/5412966&sec=nation

The irony is Malaysia has been admiting millions of Indons to its shore (& gave them IC to vote for BN) over the last decades. Aren't these the high risk fellows who commit crime in our country?

gracieq said...

Interesting read. And a nice piece of information to add to the knowledge pot.

However, for Muslims and Christians to come together likes brothers in the past, many prejudices and fears have to be hacked away. Then, we can gradually work towards world peace. One can dream and I dream to see that day come true.

Anonymous said...

I think the politicians are taking advantage and pushing the entire issue out of proportion.


All religious publications have to carry "For Non-Muslims Only" and the distribution is strictly limited to their own members as a condition of publication.


The magazine is for distribution to the indigenous population in East Malatsia. If the Catholic Church flouts that, then let the full force of the law fall upon them.


Other than that, all the current arguments about how replacing "Jesus" with "Allah" will confuse the muslims as put forward by the UMNO politicians and that Zul fella is simply ridiculous and stretching it too far.


It seems that the "good guy/bad guy", ie "PM/his DPM downwards" game is a well rehearsed and planned diversion... what price the country will pay when the dust finally settle. These jokers will all be away from Malaysia with their ill gotten gains by then!

BMWDemon said...

A confident Muslim ? LOL

Anonymous said...

It's 1PM and I just had Lunch . I cook myself as I am jobless and in lunch I had a piece of Gardenia Bread with a pork deli and a small spread of butter. Very good lunch where the Gardenia is of course - Halal and the spread of butter also carry the very familier Hala logo but I am able to combine all this with a piece of Pork deli and eat it.How about Telekom how Halal are their handset? it is "Made In China" - Land of the Asian Jew -2 billion non hala consumer. How about Tenaga - what type of accelerant they use to turn their turbine - Halal ? Pork Oil ? See how stupid can you be. How about my RM10.00 coming from a non hala faith, circulating. I am always a Pork eater and will always be. I hope Patrick your steam boat restaurant is non Halal. This is our only right left.

Anonymous said...

sigh ! this ALLAH only owned by malaysians...oops malays < 20 juta ,
sigh !!

Anonymous said...

Forget this. THE REAL ISSUE is

Why is Najib and Muhiyiddin, BOTH without any real legal expertise, SO CONFIDENT that the '(appeal) court will resolve' the issue?

This is clear evidence the 'Appeal Court' is a joke, a tool of UMNO/BN and should be investigated for abuse of power..

Dave d Saved said...

Pat, this is a good extract from Marina. Ur blog sud have a FB link so ppl can post these discussions/blogs on their Facebook too!!

Anonymous said...

waalauu uncle,
today you so seriouus one I pun impressed la,,donno whether the otherppl same or not ..hope so la so can look at themselves better....hye uncle my problem is i call meslef buddhist but actually think am taoist..youno pai sin ...how..like that..but i hope my hati is good..

sad sack

jati said...

Islam itelf is a beautiful religion.

But it has been hijacked by its practitioners for political gain.

Therefore, as a Muslim I only pray and seek my communion to God directly, as I have no faith in all the ustaz, JAIS and mosque authorities.

steven said...

The Home Minister had justified the ban on the grounds of national security and to avert misunderstanding and confusion among Muslims. — Bernama

National security and confusion? Are you saying that if the Christians worship the same God, the Muslims would be confused and cause havoc or a war?

Theft of jet fighter engines is not a threat to national security?

Some one please explain. I am confuse already.

Anonymous said...

michael said...
Marina should first persuade her father to read her blog. If her dad were to listen to her daughter's opinion once in a while, Malaysia will not be in this racial sh*t today.

Anonymous said...

If anyone really ever read history, they will know the answer. Not those who never read but just follow whatever other ppl say. Unfortunately, this is what most malaysian muslim is doing, they can't read but they refuse to read the translation and meaning, so they just follow whatever other ppl (who seems to know arabic) say whithout verifying whether it's the truth.

I am a muslim, and yes I do not know Arabic, but I can proudly say I understand Quran more than most of them because I read it in translation versions (more than one). If you think who can't read Arabic cannot understand Quran, it's just like telling a non-chinese reader you will never understand Art of War by Tzu Zi.

Nur

oldman said...

Hi Uncle Pat,

See,i dont have any single problem on my daily life,working relation ship with our fellow Muslim friends.

In facts,to me they are more friendly than Chinese.

I believe the fundamental of good relationship between diff races and religious is......respect.

Unfortunately,in Msia we have a bloody hell Gov not happy to see the healthy social life among the ppls.For the Votes sake and power,they r willing to do anything....ready to wash the keris with blood.

Go damn BN,and not to surprise so many EX-EX..politician die from sudden death.They must be some power which we cannot see ......
Like Chinese ppl said....3 feet above the head,someone watching our behaviour.

Justice Bao said...

One of my Malay colleague asked me this question before,

"Hey, what do you think? Cina lepas convert consider a Malay ke?"

This is the problem, which is only seen in Malaysia.
They think that they own the religion!

Hence, they all become too sensitive and tend to overreact over certain issues (such as the famous cow-head carriers, etc)

Can someone pls enlighten these bunch of fools!

Anonymous said...

WHACK PATRICK TEOH THE INFIDEL CRIPPLE.
HIT HIM IN THE HEAD WITH A HAMMER.
HIT PAKIAM AND LAU TOO.

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND WORSHIP YOUR OWN DOLLS.

Anonymous said...

This is going to be blown out of control if the govt does not seriously do something positive soon. Whatever the govt is saying now does not hold water. It must act to prevent this fr blowing out of control or is it hoping it will blow out of control to distract the public fr more critical issues facing the country?

Once it is out of control, 513 will look insignificant by comparison. Hope the component parties exert some pressure on their big brother, umno now.

Anonymous said...

Can we stop promoting this and instead focus on Altantuya, Teoh Beng Hock, PKFZ & missing engines?

Niamiahtofakeos said...

A Muslim is a human being practising his Muslim faith. The key word is PRACTISING. He becomes more honest, more compassionate, more truth-seeking, more learned, more trustworthy, more respectful, more gentle, more a loving human being. He is fair and just. He is really sensitive in his actions to fellow human beings . He will be more insightful to see his role in contributing to uplifting his brothers and sisters to a more civilized and wholesome life. He will share fairly the goods of this world. He will not take more than what he works for honestly.

Will this beautiful human being take away the rights promised to another in the name of his faith?

A practising Muslim cannot.

A chalatan faking being a Muslim will.

But will the practising Muslims tolerate this unislamic behaviour?

Anonymous said...

The problem here is that we are not dealing with Prophet Muhammad's followers.

We are dealing with ignorant Malays and UMNO followers.

sbennit@yahoo.com

CK Mak said...

Dear Patrick,
Thanks for sharing. Really good article.
I think we all should now realise how close Islam is to Christianity. I would like to think that from this event, the Muslims and Christian brothers will be much closer with each other.

Jimmy said...

pat,
may i suggest that you immediately file a police report; anon 12:38pm had threaten to rape you.

"allah" might get you ISA-ed.

sekain maklum.

kurma said...

Everyone likes to make noise about this...

I also wanna make some noise... Allah means God in Arabic, so everyone who tries to speak Arabic and mentioning God can say Allah, why not! Noisy muslims out there, why can't Catholics call God Allah? Allah is not Malay word either. The use of Allah by catholics predates Islam, isn't this factually correct?

Noisy Catholics, aren't you happy enough to be able to call God Tuhan? Why insist on calling Allah when you know there will be noise all over Malaysia!

So, when will the utterance of Amin or Amen at the end of Catholic/Christian prayers (or even Jewish) come to fire?

Anonymous said...

Uncle Patrick,

All this is just a facade. In a few days time, the Court of Appeals will rule the High Court judgement to be wrong and "Allah" (pbuh) will become the sole proprietary of our 1Malaysia UMNO Muslims brethrens.

Then our 1Malaysia Heroes aka Defenders of the Great 1Malaysia UMNO Muslim race, 1Najib, 1Moohideousdin, 1Noshamemoodin and the countless UMNO ultra bigots will shout "God is Great" (sorry as a non Muslim I cannot write this phrase in Arabic as it is considered to be blasphemous) at this turn of events. Soon all 1Malaysia UMNO Muslims will be pacified for about 1 minute before they start to look around for a "fire" to start. Now let's see which areas they have yet to stoke fire........

glysk said...

Perhaps, ban Christians from saying "shalom" to each other because that sounds too much like "salam" and means the same thing...

Anonymous said...

Science and rationality have taken human beings to the moon and back. Religion and irrationality is only interested in flying aeroplanes into buildings.

Anonymous said...

we're living in a fuckin hilarious country, don't you think so???

oldman said...

Uncle Pat even let go some of the nasty comment,good also lah.....let us see how those joker behave.

The one claim to FxxK Uncle Pat whenever he saw Uncle Pat....really make my day....ha ha ha..r u sure u want Uncle Pat????

Laugh until ppl next to me thought i'm xiao liao.....

Mike Tan said...

I just came back from Solo,Indo.
The Muslim there are of Shafie sect as well.Here is ther version:

Muslim man marries a Christian girl,no conversion required.

Christian man marries Muslim girl,man to convert.

Muslim's God is Allah( Pronounced
as "Or Law".

Christian'a God is Ala(Pronounced
as alamak).

The muslim and Christian polulation
is about equal and all live in harmony.If only we can be as tolerent as them.

Anyway,the government should have allowed the status qou to stay rather than stirring up the hornet's nest.After all this is only practised in East Malaysia and has been there for donkey years.Churches in West Malaysia never used the Malay Bible for the services.

Anonymous said...

the rmaf 'sacked gen & high ranking ppl' very happy because hot issue is 'Allah' & no one talks about the 2 missing engines ....!!

Anonymous said...

I have a dilemma, my little niece was supposed to sing the negaraku. In it, there's this phase.. ' Tuhan ku niah kan....' Dr. M and a whole lot of Umno ministers insist that Tuhan refers to Christian God. Allah can only be used for Muslim God. Non-muslims cannot use work 'Allah'.

Question:
So all muslims are offering allegience to Christian God ?

maybe change to Allah in negaraku. Then all non muslims would be breaking the law for using Allah?

Maybe throw out whole sentence, then all of us profess GOd or Allah will not take care of our country.
..........................HOW ?????................. please ask your datuk222 friends as I do not want to break any laws.


Appreciate your kind attention, I am law abiding citizen and also god, allah, buddha, siddhu fearing man of 58.

Humble and stupid, who cannot resolve this BIG problem.

please help.

Ho ho ho said...

End result LPPL or in hokien lam pah pah lam.

I am also another god fearing person and I hope God forgive me for my crudeness

YB Rakyat said...

The daughter of Tun Maverick should use her good sense to spend the 'limited' time to rehabilitate her father.

Tun Maverick is eroding his legacy with nonsense & racist remarks in his blog.
he is now shifting the blame to Pak Lah on the overzealous spending issue.

Marina,
Please do the rakyat (and you father) a favour by the rehabilitation process while you still have the time and opportunity.

AhmadBusu said...

UMNO would do anything to confuse Malays, so that they then step up to show they are the one who defend them. This is DOSA !
I am a Malay but I not subject to UMNO's doctrines.

Anonymous said...

Actually the part about if a Christian marries a Muslim she can go back to her Church and pray??

- Does this mean she does not have to embrace Islam even? It sure sounds like it and consistent with the insistent of non-compulsion in the same dictat.

I have a Chinese American friend who married a Liberian Muslim and she never converted. Even her children don't practise Islam. I always wondered why...

Anonymous said...

Why are they so scared of christians converting their 'muslims and confused' kids? Isn't this is also a chance for them to convert the 'christians and confused' followers to Islam? Fair play mah? no...?

People have been using this 'Allah' word for centuries in Malaysia for Malaysians. So, wassup..? Now in the midst of so many scandals they finally wanna show their ke-faithful-lan.

Tiger said...

Wah, Pat, got free offer for sex some more?
Hahahahahaha, funny lah these people, so worked up over a non-issue.
From Marina's post, it's already clear that the Prophet has already decreed to protect Christians.
Only problem there's a minority here who do not understand how to be a good Muslim.

Anonymous said...

if ...IF zizi's ibu wants to marry me
i...i may convert !!

prvlabel said...

We have all been forwarding Marina's article. Well written I must say but as usual who is she to comment. She puts herself as a social activists yet we have never heard her publicly oppose any comments that her father makes and we all agree he has come up with some very inconsistent, inconsiderate etc .... opinions. Its all contradictory to what she purports to fight for???
Do we all agree?

Anonymous said...

Kalau abang Bung mau a 3rd one, pls consider grannyku , she can convert one, ok ?

Anonymous said...

Patrick Teoh,

You keep repeating, "a confident muslim" , I think your reasoning is all wrong. There is no such thing as a "confident muslim, a confident christian or a confidence buddhis".


The subject of religion is a highly sensitive. It is even more sensitive then racial issues.

You just cannot rationale this matter according to your own perspectives.

Dr. Asri and by the way was the head of the Perlis Muslim Council. A lot of Muslim have the perception that he is following the Wahabis Sect of Islam. You might think that they are more tolerant. In reality, this sect is much much stringent and not recognized by the majority of Muslim is Malaysia and not practice by the majority of the muslim in the world. What he says therefore does not carry any weights among Muslims.

What you should do is, try to imagine yourself as a Muslim. You are among 15 million of Muslim in this Country. Suddenly, some Christian priests says that they want to refer god the same name as the Muslim. What is the first thing that cross your mind?......

This matter is a bit more complicated then the subject you refer to as "confident Muslim"

Can you refer to me a country which have "Confident Christians" or "Confident Buddhis" , China? maybe.

Southern Malaysia

Anonymous said...

Patrick Teoh,

I would also like to add.

We still follow our prophet (pbuh) instruction not to harm Christians followers without good reason until this day.

There are still Christians living among Muslim in Muslim Countries like Egypt, Lebenon and even Iraq since hundred of years ago. Unfortunately, the Muslims had receive horrendous treatments in Spain and the earlier Muslim population is close to none.

There are historical events that have taken place that will have long lasting impact on Muslims and Christian relation.

Now, the relationship among Muslims ans Christians are good. However, they are boundaries that should not be cross by both.

Southern Malaysian

1 Malay-sia(L) said...

harlooooo southern malaysian,

it is you who suddenly need to wake up, IMHO.

Anonymous said...

Southern Muslim I dont agree with you.. I'm a muslim myself. as Dr Maza has beautifully explained in his article, the real Islam is SO simple and easy to understand- and he quoted example from the Prophet Muhammad himself. Not some grandious "islamic" philosophy gibberish that cannot be understood by a normal human being. And his point on the use of "Allah" as not exclusive to Muslims comes with a PROOF from the Quran itself (Quran means, the words of Allah... just in case you don't know). He didn't just made that one up. And YET, people like you will say to sincere Muslims like Dr Maza, "Ahhh........ you're wahabi"... as if THAT labeling will now automatically make you a REAL muslim and the other fella a fake one!

Ahmad Syafiq said...

Now, I doubt the originality of the document from Prophet Muhammad s.a.w to the Christians back in 628A.D. (If you want to talk about a real document, refer to the Hudaibiyah agreement between Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and the Musyrikin.)

Not to mention Sisters-in-Islam are considered deviant here in Malaysia for their misleading teachings. There is no such thing as a liberal Islam, but there's only 1 true Islam, which is Islam in its pure form.

However, I have nothing against the non-Muslims using 'Allah', it's just that 'Allah' cannot be misused for hidden agendas. Sure, you can use 'Allah' for good reasons, but don't use it for bad reasons.

Nuffnang