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Wednesday, April 07, 2010

Common sense ain't common

I feel that it is my duty to post these 2 comments I received here for all to read. The comments were in response to the post It's a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world.

If nothing else I think it will show some clumsy attempts to turn every discussion and comment into racial and religious conflicts.

It isn't about religion, moron. It is about common sense and the lack of it in some Malaysian "leaders". Get it? Oh, never mind.

I take offence with the statement. What do you mean insane ? Muslims ? The fatwa council ? The Government ? The whole situation of the government following the ruling of the fatwa council ?

What's wrong with Muslims want to follow the ruling of the fatwa council ? After all, it's the Muslims that have to follow the ruling, not the others. Even Lim Kit Siang is smart enough not to touch this issue. Obviously you are not cunning or smart enough as him. Or maybe you're just plain oblivious.

The fatwa council has stated its point ever since the independence, that observing Warrior's Day at places like the National Monument is against the teaching of Islam. They are only renewing their call on the issue to the government.

Blame the previous administrations for making you accustomed with the thought of Warrior's Day celebration must be held at the National Monument, whereas it shouldn't have been celebrated there in the first place.

Ultimately, it's the government call whether or not to follow the ruling. If you have any grievances with the government's decision, well, you have to live with it. Furthermore, the government didn't say anything about the non-muslims cannot celebrate Warriors Day at the National Monument, nor did it say anything about tearing the statues down. You can still very much celebrate Warriors Day there if you want to, but I don't think that you celebrate it anyway. I think it's just your knack making a big fuss out of nothing.

For you to go against the building of the proposed Warriors Square, read this so that you can have a little thought about it. Think about the warriors who have fallen since before the independence. Think of those who were Muslims. Is it fair for them to be remembered in a way that's against the teaching of their OWN religion ? If you say yes, well, you are definitely, grossly chauvinistic. I think they would rather not be remembered if the remembrance ceremony is held against the teaching of their faith. The celebration of Warriors Day in the proposed Warriors Square would be fair, as both our muslim and non-muslim fallen heroes could be remembered as it would not go against the teachings of any religions. It’s not that the Warriors Day celebration is a religious ceremony anyway, apart from one minute fact that it is usually started with a doa as to have the celebration and the souls of the departed heroes blessed by Allah. But if you are offended by that, maybe you shouldn’t go to the celebration or any government-organized function, because usually all of them are started with a doa, or muslim prayers, if you must know.

Actually, I’m perplexed as to why you bring up this issue in the first place. Why Patrick ? This is only a minor issue. It’s not something that should be blown out of proportion. What you do here is actually inciting religious and racial hatred. You’ve lived long enough to know that you abhor animosity amongst the people of Malaysia, correct ? Yet, what you’ve written shows your immaturity. Or maybe you’re just playing oblivious for reasons known only to you and to god. My advice Patrick, don’t write about something if you don’t know any better. Staying quiet is a whole lot better.


8:40 AM

Those who are not conversant about Islam, please refrain from saying anything on issues pertinent to the religion, for I'm afraid it would only show your gross ignorance and lack of understanding about the faith. Muslims included.

Thank you.


12:30 PM



superwilson said...

It's subjective.

Anonymous said...

I am a muslim, and if it is sooooo offensive and unislamic to salute in front of a lifeless thing, why are you still 'sembah' your sultan as if he is a god on earth?? Isn't it more unislamic to 'sembah' a person and act as a lower human in front of him?

If want to ban, don't ban sikit2, should ban all at once.


Anonymous said...

It's reverse arrogance born of indoctrinated religiosity, Patrick, and that's their glib kneejerks disguised as having absolute propriety.

The moment they mention religion(meaning theirs, only)the whole world must recognise that as supreme, to the extent that everyone must virtually drop everything they are doing and go gaa gaa, and abandon all their inherent rationality.


Serious Shepherd said...

Truly u saved ur @$$ by publishing the last 2 comments into a blog entry.

Anonymous said...

patrick,patrick, kenapa tak fikir sensitivi orang lain bila menulis, hanya kerana ada sesetengah muslim dan melayu yang melampau, cakap main lepas je, takkan la kau pun nak buat mcm tu. aku ingat ko ni lebih bijak dan berbeza, tapi sama je.

yum said...

I am a non-Muslim. If this religion is so mechanical, then I, for one, will not be a adherent.

I'd rather believe in a God who is loving, merciful, and forgiving. In a God who is more interested in the function than the form.

You fatwa dudes just lost me.

joolee said...

What about all the fallen heroes who were non-Muslims? Don't they deserve some consideration too?

It's all petty posturing to gain brownie points and I'm just sick of it all.

Would it do any good to ask the religio-politicos who have crawled out from under their tempurung not to hijack the memory of all those brave Malaysians who have fallen in defence of our country?

donplaypuks® said...

The National Monument captures not just the herosim of Malay/Muslim heroes. After all the involvement of all M'sians in battling the Japs during WW2 and Communists during Insurgency is well document in our history archives!!

So, should we then, because of this fatwa have 1 monument for non-Mulims and another Warriors Sq at Putrajaya? We'll have to imagine the one at Lake Gardens is only for non-Muslims? We'll become the laughing stock of the world for yet again!!

Niamah again!!

We are all of 1 race, the Human Race

Anonymous said...

"Paying respect" or "worshiping statues" is two different things and if everyone can have a clear mind about these two matters, none of these is necessary.

Anonymous said...

"My advice Patrick, don’t write about something if you don’t know any better."


And mine to you, Fart-er, is that, you are presumptuous to impose on others your own ingrained fallacy about religion being viable as a compulsion and not as a persuasion!

Anonymous said...

Patrick, what do you mean by common sense ? Not everything in this world is run by common sense. You ought to remember that we muslims have to adhere to the teachings of our religion. The clerics, though they are not infallible, still, a layman like me needs to listen to their advice on matters pertaining to our faith. I don't quite understand what kind of COMMON SENSE that you are conveying, but if the writings that you post on your blog incense certain parties, wouldn't it be a COMMON SENSE for you to stop writing more inflammatory statements. I think you'd understand the situation a whole lot better if you can seek clarification from members of the fatwa council.

Common sense does not apply to everything. Religion is one of them. Please understand that muslims won't tear down the National Monument just because of the fatwa council ruling. Before anything, have a little understanding about why the council issue such ruling.


wandererAUS said...

I am not qualified to comment on Islam but, I am definitely, very qualified to comment on a dickhead when I see one.

Go and suck an egg!!!

Anonymous said...

I respect the person's right not to have to bow down before statue or carved rock or whatever.

But please dont destroy or damage or remove the existing "Tugu".

By all means, build a new one, but keep the old one as a remembrance of the true multi-national, multi-religious and multi-racial men and women who fought for Malaya and Malaysia.

By all means build a newer one in Putrajaya. There is more space there. Unfortunately that mad man did not see the need for car parks. He believed that his son's company will build self propelled back-packs so that people need not use vehicles to travel.

ELSE the rakyat do not need vehicles, use crony's buses, etc.

Anonymous said...

It's quite apparent that GNP is trying to divert the blame on to others for his own oppressive sensitivities that he demands be accorded him/her in "religion's" name.

Very subtle and cunning form of psychological oppression.

anwar al-juburi said...

Hahaha Pat, why are you so mad? Because that guy just gave KO punch issit? Hahaha please publish more sensible entry next time Pat. tks

Blower said...

uncle pat,

just try to be more cautious when commenting issue with regards to other religions...i agree with gng on this matter

agree to disagree

Anonymous said...

Uncle ar! No point responding to these type of people le. Their mentality are so narrow ... everything to them is 'in a box' of either religion or politics.

Trashed said...

GNG said

"Common sense does not apply to everything. Religion is one of them."

How very true ! Syed Akbar Ali's book - Malaysia and the Club of Doom - illusrates this very aptly.

Anonymous said...

I thought when we use the word (heroes) it transcends all religions and when we salute these heroes we mean just that - heroes -period.
In that case if its such a problem we will have Christian Heroes day, Buddhist Heroes day, Atheist Heroes day...etc etc and some more?And Heroine Day just to be politically correct?Tsk tsk..


Anonymous said...

Why these people so angry about what you think and still read your blog?? For all due respect, it's your blog and you're entitled to express yourself . If so offended by it, just don't read it. There are hundred of million of other blogger who are not Patrick Teoh.. Haha.. really Niamah

Anonymous said...

My lecturer once said this to my classmates and I a few years back:

"Understanding is more important than tolerance".

I think that maybe Malaysians, a big majority of them, have already reached their limits on tolerating each other. They only tolerated, but didn't understand each other.


bahlul said...

ahahahaha very farnee.. ape ni gng... ko tak cukup zat ke... terbantut ke? ahahaha.......
keep it up pat! very FARNEE!!!!!

Ralfie said...

I'm a muslim and I'm of the opinion that if they want to ban this thing they should also ban Perkasa (racial superiority is not tolerated in Islam), corruption, worshipping the Sultan as if he is god, and the list goes on and on. If they can accept the Sultan changing the law of Islam, I'm surprised they are busying themselves with this. Well then again, these are the very same people who thinks malays make the best muslims in the world.

But on another note, Uncle Pat maybe you would want to be more careful when commenting on these kind of issues. It's like walking on a thin layer of ice.

Charlie Oscar said...

Dear Patrick,
Anon 3:20pm said...
"Paying respect" or "worshiping statues" is two different things and if everyone can have a clear mind about these two matters, none of these is necessary.

To those who are very religious, please bear in mind that we are ONLY Paying Respect, NOT Worshipping!!!
It is Only a CEREMONIAL Occasion on Warrior’s Day which was determined to be on 1st July!!!

Even if a NEW Warrior's Square is built in Putrajaya, Where would it be Facing???
North, South, East or West???

Unlike the "TUGU", What would there be as a SYMBOL to place the Wreath on???

Just curious!!!

Anonymous said...

I have just watched CLASH OF THE TITANS.

My fear is that in the very near future such movies could be banned here in Malaysia because of the elements like Zeus and Medussa that will be deemed offensive to a certain belief here.

Same with Harry Potter, Spider-man, Shrek ...

Charlie Oscar said...

Dear Patrick,
This Article is from MI By Syed Mu’az Syed Putra
Please note these words, Monument, Commemorate, Symbolic, Military Ceremony & Mark of Respect!!!

KUALA LUMPUR, April 7 — Former Malaysian soldiers want a new monument in Putrajaya to commemorate Warrior’s Day even if the celebrations are moved to the administrative capital due to objections from Islamic scholars.

Presently the event is commemorated with a military ceremony at the National Monument in Kuala Lumpur.

The 130,000-strong Ex-Servicemen Association of Malaysia (PBTM) said a new monument is necessary as a respect to the soldiers even if it isn’t a replica of the iconic bronze monument of human statues in Lake Garden here.

Datuk Muhammad Abd Ghani also said the current July 31 celebrations is only symbolic and a mark of respect, denying claims it was unIslamic as stated by Islamic authorities who claim it should not be held at the site of statues or sculptures of human figures.

“It is an old military ceremony. We are Not Worshipping the Monument as mentioned but it is just symbolic. What is important is our intention to give respect,” he told The Malaysian Insider last night.

To those who are very religious, IT IS NOT unISLAMIC!!!
With due respect, it Has Nothing To Do With RELIGION!!!

Anonymous said...

Taliban, taliban logic...

The two above want to talibanise Malaysia....his influence is SPREADING>>>

Anonymous said...

It has nothing to do with sensitivities. Don't bullshit me here. Anyway, the one who ordered the built of Warriors' Monument is none other TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN.
Now, I am calling those FCB pathetic bastards to answer me the question

Tunku Abdul Rahman bukan orang muslim yang alim? Adakah dia syaitan? Iblis? kafir? Apa lah dei?

Up yours with the sensitivites. Yeah, reminds me with the 48 hours Amaran given to MCA & Gerakan to recant by none other than Ibrahim Ali....Guess what....48 Hours has passed....FS!FS!FS!FS!

I would rather ask those FCBs......You who does not have sin cast the first stone....I will make sure they swear....

Anonymous said...

Hi Pat,

I've been a follower of your career since the Kee Huat Fantatsic Fact & Fancies days, then your thespian career and your blog. I think a lot of people has to read your blog with a view that it has a comedic slant to it, while being critical of misdeeds. Which is how I like it.

But yeah, I have to agree with some comments here that if one does not know Islam (or any other faith for that matter), then one should refrain from making adverse comments without the benefit of being informed.

In Islam, the act of praying to an inanimate object (or berhala as the term is used in schools) is wrong, as Allah is not born neither does He give birth. He is not a human being, and neither is He physically omnipresent. He cannot be likened to anything.

Thus the act of paying homage to the National Monument, even though it is meant to honour the sacrifices of our soldiers, is wrong. The sub-context here is that "niat tidak boleh menghalalkan cara", or the intent cannot make the method (of expressing the intent) correct. (This also requires the understanding of the word "halal", and in this instance it is used to describe correctness of action, and not religious edibility of food). It is againts the teachings of Islam to say a prayer to objects. It is also meant to prevent idol-mentality, much like how today's leaders love to put pictures of themselves on posters much like our Eastern European leaders of the past. The image of Prophet Muhammad PBUH is also disallowed to prevent idolism to take root, as he is not God but he was THE Messenger of God.

So in the context of the Council's decree it is perfectly correct. In the 70s I believe there was a statue of Tuanku Abdul Rahman Putra Al-Haj in the gardens of parliament, but this was removed after it was learnt that it went against Islam.

I do hope you either make a correction/apology on the matter, or at least make a clear stand that you think the ruling is bullshit and why you think so.

It isn't always a religious or racial issue, but I gather any god-fearing Christians too would be upset if say Christianity was ridiculed or Prophet Isa AS was made out to be lesser than how they thought of him.


Homophobic said...

Haha cowardly Fat-trick Tiyoh wouldn't publish my earlier comment... What a sore coward! Keep it up, hypocrite!

Anonymous said...

Patrick, lu lah jenis manusia yang tak erti diuntung. Mungkin sia-sia sahaja saya tulis kerana lu bukan erti bahasa Malaysia pun apa tah lagi faham hukum hakam Islam.

U know next to nothing about this issue, so please shut up. This has got nothing to do with common sense, but all to do with tenets of one's religion.

Lu hati-hati sikit... jangan usik harimau sedang tidur, kawan.

BTW, I haven't read anywhere saying the government wants to demolish the monument. Ada ka gomen cakap itu macam, apek? Atau lu sendiri yang cakap?


Anonymous said...

berapa banyak comment aku kau tak approve.. penakut.. takut nampak kau ni sengaja nak melaga-laga kan orang..stupid Fat-trick

Anonymous said...

C'mon people ... stop being so thin-skinned and be so sensitive! Don't equate everything to religion ...

Anonymous said...

Wow... we are not even entitled to our little own opinion? Be it wrong or biased or whatever, we are entitled to have some say in our opinion.

I adverse GNG's comment.


aiyomanaboleh said...

I must not have been following this closely enough but it is obvious that the word of god is not understood properly for a "fatwa" to be issued.

Now, the next question is, how did this happened?

Anonymous said...

Would the descendants of Hang Li Poh, Cheng Ho or Hang Tuah and his gang be classified as bumiputera?

I am more inclined to believe that MCA played the Chinese out when they agreed to the constitution, because they never considered the position of the Peranakan Chinese, whose forefathers came here centuries ago.

Enche Gaban said...

Anon 9.01/Yen,

True everyone's entitled to his/her own opinion. It's just that Patrick's is stupid.

Anonymous said...

Ini blog cina pukimak asyik nak memalukan orang melayu sahaja, woi..apek tua nak mampos pukimak...
all his posting are to insult malay leader from BN , i think this apek are comunist leftover la..apek tua nak mampos pukimak...

Anonymous said...

Ini blog cina pukimak asyik nak memalukan orang melayu sahaja, woi..apek tua nak mampos pukimak...
all his posting are to insult malay leader from BN , i think this apek are comunist leftover la..apek tua nak mampos pukimak...

SayaAnakBangsaMalaysia said...

In this bodohland of ours, there are malays and umno-malays, muslims and umno-muslims, bumiputras and umno-bumiputras; all thanks to a bleeding mamak.

used to b an idiot... said...

common sense is so uncommon in our times...malaysia is now having more and more morons coming out acting all self righteous and defending their religion and skin color and every bloody damn stupid thing. wheres the common sense???

you are ALL morons because u r played by political leaders who want nothing more thn their own self interest. u really think the government is interested to help the malays??? the bumiputras??? they r only interested to keep their place of power to serve their own desires.


Mike Tan said...

What's paying respect to fallen heroes has to do with religion ah?

Memberi kehormatan= menyembah?
very soon there will be decree disallowing muslim soldiers to salute their superiors.Pea brains.

Anonymous said...

From the heart of a Muslim - Tawfik Hamid

I was born a Muslim and lived all my life as a follower of Islam.
After the barbaric terrorist attacks done by the hands of my fellow Muslims everywhere on this globe, and after the too many violent acts by Islamists in many parts of the world, I feel responsible as a Muslim and as a human being, to speak out and tell the truth to protect the world and Muslims as well from a coming catastrophe and war of civilizations.

I have to admit that our current Islamic teaching creates violence and hatred toward Non-Muslims.
We Muslims are the ones who need to change. Until now we have accepted polygamy, the beating of women by men, and killing those who convert from Islam to other religions.
We have never had a clear and strong stand against the concept of slavery or wars, to spread our religion and to subjugate others to Islam and force them to pay a humiliating tax called Jizia. We ask others to respect our religion while all the time we curse non-Muslims loudly (in Arabic) in our Friday prayers in the Mosques.
What message do we convey to our children when we call the Jews "Descendants of the pigs and monkeys".. Is this a message of love and peace, or a message of hate?
I have been into churches and synagogues where they were praying for Muslims. While all the time we curse them, and teach our generations to call them infidels, and to hate them. (continue to next comment)

Anonymous said...

Continue from previous comment - "We immediately jump in a 'knee jerk reflex' to defend Prophet Mohammed when someone accuses him of being a pedophile while, at the same time, we are proud with the story in our Islamic books, that he married a young girl seven years old (Aisha) when he was above 50 years old.
I am sad to say that many, if not most of us, rejoiced in happiness after September 11th and after many other terror attacks.
Muslims denounce these attacks to look good in front of the media, but we condone the Islamic terrorists and sympathise with their cause. Till now our 'reputable' top religious authorities have never issued a Fatwa or religious statement to proclaim Bin Laden as an apostate, while an author, like Rushdie, was declared an apostate who should be killed according to Islamic Shariia law just for writing a book criticizing Islam.
Muslims demonstrated to get more religious rights as we did in France to stop the ban on the Hejab (Head Scarf), while we did not demonstrate with such passion and in such numbers against the terrorist murders.
It is our absolute silence against the terrorists that gives the energy to these terrorists to continue doing their evil acts. We Muslims need to stop blaming our problems on others or on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. As a matter of honesty, Israel is the only light of democracy, civilization, and human rights in the whole Middle East .
We kicked out the Jews with no compensation or mercy from most of the Arab countries to make them "Jews-Free countries" while Israel accepted more than a million Arabs to live there, have its nationality, and enjoy their rights as human beings. In Israel , women can not be beaten legally by men, and any person can change his/her belief system with no fear of being killed by the Islamic law of 'Apostasy,' while in our Islamic world people do not enjoy any of these rights.. I agree that the 'Palestinians' suffer, but they suffer because of their corrupt leaders and not because of Israel .
It is not common to see Arabs who live in Israel leaving to live in the Arab world. On the other hand, we used to see thousands of Palestinians going to work with happiness in Israel , its 'enemy'. If Israel treats Arabs badly as some people claim, surely we would have seen the opposite happening.
We Muslims need to admit our problems and face them. Only then we can treat them and start a new era to live in harmony with human mankind. Our religious leaders have to show a clear and very strong stand against polygamy, pedophilia, slavery, killing those who convert from Islam to other religions, beating of women by men, and declaring wars on non-Muslims to spread Islam.
Then, and only then, do we have the right to ask others to respect our religion. The time has come to stop our hypocrisy and say it openly: 'We Muslims have to Change'.

Tawfik Hamid